v1.13 Main Talk thread

[morki]

Inside out or outside in?
(I did this once in a mod - forgot which. Also crash. So I never tried this again. Give 'em bullets!)

In Meduna I found a RPK with Talon and bipod! Only loaded with 30 bullets. The same in the other northern maps of meduna: some Minimi, some RPK and some HK21 were loaded with the standard ammo-amount from JA2 - 30, 30, 20.
All other weapons I got so far have been ok.

What is the difference between the three types of RPG-rockets?
I thought Frag for people, AP for tanks and HE for buildings, but they all seem to be the same. Frag against people is §$% ... let's call it "not really effective".

[morki]

Die kleine Erkundungstour (Balime bis Gefängnis) hat sich über Meduna ausgeweitet und jetzt werde ich wohl noch über Nacht nach Grumm fahren und dürfte halb sieben ankommen, was gute Bedingungen schafft.
Außerdem war die Munition für die Barrets fast alle, sowie keine für die MP7 mehr. Die Gegner trugen nur noch Rak, Auto-Rak, HK21, RPK, sehr selten Minimi und manchmal M24 (das schlechteste SSG im ganzen Spiel),

Man achte auf:
- das Datum
- den Kontostand
- herumliegende Gegenstände (nur sinnvolle Sachen - also schwache Waffen und Muni, Rüstungen unter Spectra, Rauch und Tränengas, Macheten, Alk, Pornos, überzählige Medikits - alles verkauft)

Gegner haben bis jetzt kein einziges Compund18-beschichtetetes Rüstungsteil fallen gelassen. Im Ur-JA2 kam das aber mehrmals vor, da bin ich mir ziemlich sicher.
Liegt das an 1.13?

[Nitrat]

yes, and at your settings (great onlineshop = great poket by enemys)

you know what i mean ?
NITineeeeedsleeeep:khelle:RAT

[Kaiden]

@spectre - Send me that save if it's not among the ones I already have. I'm interested in tracking through the window-break code anyway, this way I can accomplish two things at once while doing it.

[Spectre]

Inside out or outside in?
(I did this once in a mod - forgot which. Also crash. So I never tried this again. Give 'em bullets!)

From inside out, but i don't know if it would work bidirectional - i'm not gona try!

In Meduna I found a RPK with Talon and bipod! Only loaded with 30 bullets. The same in the other northern maps of meduna: some Minimi, some RPK and some HK21 were loaded with the standard ammo-amount from JA2 - 30, 30, 20.
All other weapons I got so far have been ok.

Confirmed. Found the same RPK.

@spectre - Send me that save if it's not among the ones I already have. I'm interested in tracking through the window-break code anyway, this way I can accomplish two things at once while doing it.

Save is en route.
Although you might not gona get a lot out of it. The game simply freezes - and so does WinXP Pro. Well, at least a crash log... maby.
NOTE: The game freezes as soon as you take aim. You don't have to fire that thing. Just pointing at someone.


@Smilingassassin
A militia of 18 regular and 2 elite has a rate of suxxess of maby 4% against 20 regular (red) enemies (auto-resolve - reloaded approx. 100 times to check this out). The AI might attack you every second time with a 20 man platoon.
I don't think there is anything you can do just by redesigning the maps for 1.13.

[smilingassassin]

Confirmed. Found the same RPK.

@Smilingassassin
A militia of 18 regular and 2 elite has a rate of suxxess of maby 4% against 20 regular (red) enemies (auto-resolve - reloaded approx. 100 times to check this out). The AI might attack you every second time with a 20 man platoon.
I don't think there is anything you can do just by redesigning the maps for 1.13.

confirmed

found the same RPK-74 each time i captured meduna airport. This LMG`s are placed in maps and therefore not subject to changes made in the xml. files

in auto-resolve, i guess the map has no influence at all on the outcome of the automatically generated battle

but for general weakness of militia in normal fights (there is a screenshot further up), this often has to do with sloppy enemy placement (militia have enemy positions after capturing town sector and training militia) in default ja2 maps

have you played ja2 vengeance, spectre?
have you read azazel`s comments on 1.13 AI and maps?

in a normal fight, intelligent enemy positioning can help a lot in a militia battle. You can for isntance also check out the wildfire maps. In their attempt of placing enemies that would be hard to kill, they also gave an advantage to militia in WF

[Spectre]

have you read azazel`s comments on 1.13 AI and maps?

Nope, didn't ...do you know, where to find this text?

Enemy placement might be crucial, but 1.13 maps are as JA2 has been since the beginning. But now the enemy has become really dangerous. Lots of kaboom, grenades, snipers...
To prevent the militia from being blastered to kingdom come, you would have to completely redesign some of the maps - not just the placement.
The screenshot i've postet earlier... they did not stand there at the beginning of the fight. But they don't have any other choice than to move directly into harms way. As good as no cover, no other way to go... and the enemy is right behind that fence, covered by lots of trees.
Notice the difference between your invasion and the situation when the enemy tries to capture the town again. Most of the enemies are locked in. Otherwhise you coud just do the same. Make a lot of noise at the entrance and wait for them to come and die. They just dont have any other way to go.

Every map with a "fire-line" is lethal to the militia (and there are a lot them).

But maby if you could set "Militia Directives" for the map. The best way for this map would be to hide and wait for the enemy to come. But you cant prevent the militia from rushing forward and die like noobs in Counterstrike.

[smilingassassin]

off course i can do that

i can have them camp on the same tile during the whole fight jsut as an AWP user in counterstriker *g*

that`s what i meant with enemy placement. this is a main flaw of default ja2 maps. most enemies have "on guard", "find enemy" or "on call2 directives
these are options in the map file, NOT KI!

so this plus placement can be edited in the map file. I also asked muggsy to exclude "stationary" enemies from climbing roofs. Guess why...

[Spectre]

Ah, i see. Thanx smilingassassing.
So this *would* be an action directive for the militia, not just new locations to start from. Yea, i think this could be a major improvement.

And how about this;
If the player could give directives to the militia on the fly...
They all start out with the given directives. But then you can do a right click wich would open a menue similar to the one you see if you do this on your mercs.

*search & engage
*defend position
*retreat and hide

You hear (read) all this comments from your militia like: "you are not gona let us fight alone, aren't you?" I think we can assume they would take commands from your men.

[smilingassassin]

that would be a good request for kaiden

i guess that would be hard to do, because it needs a new interface and all. But definitely a great idea, let`s hope Kaiden picks it up somehow...

[JPSeiler]

I noticed that i the german version you have to use "waffen - normal" to disable the airstrikes.

BTW i really like the airstrikes, but the game crashes very often (i have 20 crash logs, all because of airstrikes) and often it happens that the turn didnt end when its the turn of the airstrike .

Anyway really great work big thanks for your work


Kaiden how can i send you the crash logs ?

[Realist]

If you have to choose between "weapons - normal" and "tons of guns" in order to toogle the airstrike option, it probably was my fault preparing the German version. I'll keep that in mind for further German releases.

I think the next release will fix most of the problems with airstrikes.

You could create a zip file of your error logs and attach it when posting here. That probably might be the easiest way.

BTW, HWigFvW

[Spectre]

I had some strange incidents of damaged weapons and i can't see the couse for the damage. The last gun was allways in my backpack - never fiered since i've repaired that thing. The merc was never hit by anything and he didn't take a swim. The gun came down from 100% to 87% ((Steyr AUG).

Did anyone encounter something similar?

[commandant]

I have two JA2.exes: JA2.exe and JA2-Debug.exe.
In the JA2.exe I have to decide between Normal/Tons of Guns. In the JA2-Debug.exe I have to decide between Airstrike On/Off.
Good to know, that I can use the normal JA2.exe without having airstrikes, as in the JA2-Debug.exe the AIM website doesn't work. My game always quits, when doing an airstrike.

[Realist]

commandant,
you're using the german language patch, right?
the german version only comes with ja2.exe, so ja2_debug.exe is still the original one from 1.13 (english). that explains why you have normal/tog on the one hand and the airstrike option one the other hand. additionally, as debug.exe is the english one aim site won't work with it - that was actually the reason for a german version.

[commandant]

Yes I'm using your patch, which I knew.
So please change Normal/Tons of Guns to Airstrike On/Off in the next version so that users like me aren't wondering where to put off the airstrikes.

[Nitrat]

please do not change this normal/tons of guns setting into Airstrike on/off !!
its better keep them all (add this option into a subfolder from first
menusetting or in preferences where we can turn on/off the enemy drops)

MFG.....

[Realist]

@commandant

it probably was my fault preparing the German version. I'll keep that in mind for further German releases.

@Nitrat
The new release will support higher resolutions, which will provide more space for options on the menu screen. So I'm sure they'll keep both options, because they'll be able to. Otherwise there will be another acceptable solution.

[Spectre]

@ Kaiden:
Merging two of the new ammo clips can result in loss of ammunition (tested with 200 round box of 5.56N). Looks like an overflow to me. Only the one clip containing the overflow ammount will be left. The rest ceases to exist.

[KillerFaultier]

man thats great news! cant wait to play the game in the higher resolutions!
if i wasnt so damn busy at the moment, i would gladly help making the interface graphics for the higher resolutions.

btw, is there a way to import the new Wildfire 6 german mercenarys into the 1.13 mod? or can i do this by myself just by copying the corresponding wildfire files over to JA2 1.13 US?

would love to play with the wildfire mercs but not with wildfire rules!

[smilingassassin]

hi KFT

du wirst diese Söldner wahrscheinlich in proedit hinzufügen müssen plus extrahieren und copy-pasten sowie umbenennen aller relevanten daten von WF6

je nachdem, wie proedit oder prof.xml (wer weiss sowas schon) nach dem nächsten release aussehen wird

[KillerFaultier]

hi KFT

du wirst diese Söldner wahrscheinlich in proedit hinzufügen müssen plus extrahieren und copy-pasten sowie umbenennen aller relevanten daten von WF6

je nachdem, wie proedit oder prof.xml (wer weiss sowas schon) nach dem nächsten release aussehen wird

mit anderen worten: ohne größeren aufwand ist das nicht zu bewerkstelligen und bei den momentanen änderungen an den dateistrukturen des 1.13 wenig sinnvoll.

wäre trotzdem mal ne nette idee für nen kleinen söldnermod der die wildfire söldner hinzufügt.

weiss schon jemand wann die nächste 1.13 version vorraussichtlich fertig sein wird?

[commandant]

NOTE: Should be a release out "soon" I am waiting for a file. If I get it before tommorrow night, fine and dandy. If I don't, then it will not be posted until monday.

Wir haben heute Montag und Amerika liegt zwischen 6 und 10 Stunden hinter uns. Kannst also das rechnen anfangen. Außerdem ist es nicht sicher, dass die neue Version heute erscheint.

[JPSeiler]

HWigFvW ?
Herzlich Wilkommen im geilen Forum von Walter ?

danke für die Kekse und dem Gebräu


Anbei die crashes

[commandant]

HWiwgFvW = Herzlich Willkommen im wohl grünsten Forum von Welt.
Kommt daher, wenn du deinen Hintergrund auf Frühling stellst.

[Gorro der Grüne]

HWiwgFvW = Herzlich Willkommen im wohl grünsten Forum von Welt.

commandant bekommt 5.000 postings abgezogen und beginnt als noob von vorn

[morki]

@ Kaiden:
Merging two of the new ammo clips can result in loss of ammunition (tested with 200 round box of 5.56N). Looks like an overflow to me. Only the one clip containing the overflow ammount will be left. The rest ceases to exist.

Yes, I noticed the same and it was mentioned at ja-galaxy.

Another thing: since all the machine-guns use belts and boxes and no more clips, the item-pictures are wrong. HK21 and RPK-74 show clips, Minimi seems to have a unused "clip-slot" (right word?).

[Spectre]

Another thing: since all the machine-guns use belts and boxes and no more clips, the item-pictures are wrong. HK21 and RPK-74 show clips, Minimi seems to have a unused "clip-slot" (right word?).

Huh? Where?
Everythings seems fine here. I only see regular magazines sometimes when i unload a weapon. Regular 20 rounds clip 7.62 holding 100 bullets for example.

[Realist]

@Spectre
I think morki means the weapons' pictures themselves showing weapons with clips instead of boxes or something like that. You're speaking of pictures of ammo items.

[smilingassassin]

there is nothing wrong with the RPK-74 showing a clip because the 75 drum is extremely uncommon on the RPK-74

they confused that anyway so let`s go back to 45 rounds clip for RPK-74 ;-)

but for the other two, custom pictures would indeed make sense

[morki]

Haha, vielleicht sollte ich das Englische lassen. Bad english for bad people, haha.

Kann jemand etwas zum strategischen (Angriffs-)Verhalten von gegnerischen Trupps sagen?
Zur Zeir rushe ich ziemlich durch die Lande, d.h. die Milizenausbilder kommen nicht hinter dem Fortschritt des A-Teams hinterher. Also bleiben einige Städte und Rakbasen unbesetzt. Ziemlich gefährlich, aber so habe ich wenigstens mal die "Rückeroberungssequenz" gesehen. Jedenfalls war gerade Balime frei und da ich die Strasse Meduna-Balime aufgeklärt hatte, konnte ich zwei rote Fragezeichen sich gleich hintereinander auf Balime zubewegen sehen. Das erste ging in den westlichen Sektor von Balime. Keine Nachricht. Dann kam das zweite auf das erste: "Sektor erobert". Dann wandert das eine weiter in den östlichen Sektor: "Sektor erobert".
Kann es sein, dass Trupps einfach durch "meine" Sektoren hindurchwandern, wenn sie nicht dazu bestimmt waren sie einzunehmen? (Die nördlichen Meduan-Sektoren waren ja auch alle mein und die zwei Trupps sind hindurchgezogen ohne Rückeroberung.)

Wenn Balime mit Milizen voll gewesen wäre, käme es zum Kampf und wenn die Gegner gewinnen, hätte der gegner den Sektor eingenommen, auch wenn er nur "durch ziehen" wollte. Bisher der einzige plausible Ansatz für mich.

[morki]

Problem: Grumm Mining-sector - too much enemies

Save: http://home.arcor.de/morki2002/SaveGame ... 2_dead.rar

I killed all - Ira: "We've eliminated all of them!", I switch to map, but can't find the enemies.

I reported it already once from Cambria - but there the enemies popped out of nowhere.
Maybe you can change this. Perhaps more than 32 enemies (I counted all the dropped helmets) in one row or no "second line"?

[Spectre]

@Kaiden:

Maby this now "useless" leadership-skill could form sinergy with the militia. If at least one "leader" is present, then he would command/lead the militia in battle and they get a bonus on this and that depending on the best leadership skill.
Like in Sudden Strike, where an experienced officer is strenghtening the surrounding soldiers.

[Faramir]

Hoi Chummers,

I don't want to be pushing, but shouldn't there be a new version been uploaded since at last yesterday? Sorry, I don't want to insult anybody, I'm just curious.

So ka, Faramir

[Spectre]

@Kaiden

There is still that semi-bug, when you have extremely high dexterity. You need more APs to fire the same weapon, but you still don't get more than 25 APs.
It's in since 1.00, but maby you have time do something about it.

[morki]

I found wheelchair-driver Terry (Slay) in Grumm, when I attacked him (Ira totally missed (???) a MP7-burst at close-range) he suddenly offered his services, because I know who he is. Very interresting. All other terrorists became hostile (or at least tried to ) when I did this.

Another issue: I put a rod&spring on a HK21 together with this new kind of scope (forgot name). Single-shot from 7 to 4. Did the same with another HK21: single-shot from 7 to 5! Does this difference come from the condition of the rod&spring?

Again: what do the different types of RPG-ammo?

[JPSeiler]

Morki the new reflex scopes (spelled?) also give you a 20% AP reduction, so yeah its normal

[Faramir]

@morki

The reflex ACOG scopes decrease the amount of APs that you need for a shot. The different points (4 vs 5) belong to the condition of the weapon - repair it and you'll get 4 points in both weapons.

So ka, Faramir

[Der Schakal]

hello folks, i gotta little bit a question, dunno if it´s already posted ( too lazy to read), but is it normal that you can´t shoot on enemies standing on a roof if your position is on the ground??

[commandant]

Have you already tried to change the shooting level with your tabtulator key?

[smilingassassin]

afaik sometimes it is really a bug and sometimes the CTH indicator is fooling you

maybe it will be fixed in the next version

[Starwalker]

The CTH indicator may not even work correctly when you are on the same roof (at least in my experience)...

Starwalker

[Der Schakal]

ok the mistake is on the cth calculator. but it´s funny sometimes when a enemy sniper shoots all the time at you on the roof and always missing, so a second merc can find him easily ^^

[Spectre]

Any news?

@Kaiden:
Why ist the 255-militia-bug stil in there? Thought this was fixed a long time ago - long before 1.13.

[KillerFaultier]

hmmm, it seems pretty quiet around the 1.13 at the present, too quiet for my taste! here as well as at the bears pit. are the coders just lazy or are they working overtime for some really big and fancy surprises?

anyone know anything particular? how about some insider info?

[Kaiden]

Unfortunately, no new surprises, we're just all busy with RL at the moment. Snap has been carrying most of the weight this release. There is one new addition, the AI sniper code had a bug that has been fixed. Seems that they could shoot at you even if none of the enemies could see you. Logic error.

Other than that, everything is as it was. The new Beta Editor will be released, along with the update, it's bare bones, nothing tweaked, just need feedback on it before I dig in. So basically I'll re-iterate here what is being released:

1. Air-raid fixes (and related crashes/bugs that could occur even if air-raids were turned off).
2. Sniper code fix. No more super snipers that can smell you and don't even need spotters.
3. Beta Editor (english version, and it should be almost identical to the hacked German Beta Editor that everyone has been using).
4. Multiple data folders INI setting determines which data folder overrides the default.
5. Imps can have random personalities and attitudes, or even specified personalities. Fixed the IMP Generated E-mail (sort of, it still gets overwritten, and in the end, they all display info on the last IMP generated, but if you stop between each multiple IMP and read the e-mail you can find out what the personality/attitude is for the IMP you just created).
6. Snap fixed some other stuff too, but I'm tired and don't remember what exactly it was that he fixed.

The delay, is because of some glitch with IMP stats now, it's not getting the values correct and I can't figure out why, Snap is looking into it now, and he's usually quick about spotting anything I screwed up :p

After this release, don't expect too much within the next month or two, holidays are the least of our time consuming problems. But after that, I expect we'll be back on track (or at least I will be). Top on my list however are bug fixes and the Editor, so if Mugsy and Snap continue to be busy, features will be scarce.

You won't hear from me much on either forum, but I read, and post when I can.

@Spectre, I appreciate all the save-games, if you find any new ones, send them my way. If I don't respond, it doesn't mean I don't want them But I will try to respond when I can. Just work is busy, cutting into my free time and holidays coming up are taking what's left.

[Faramir]

[quote=""Kaiden""]There is one new addition, the AI sniper code had a bug that has been fixed. Seems that they could shoot at you even if none of the enemies could see you. Logic error.[/quote]

Spectre will be glad to read this. This prooves he's not mad

So ka, Faramir

[Spectre]

@Spectre, I appreciate all the save-games, if you find any new ones, send them my way. If I don't respond, it doesn't mean I don't want them But I will try to respond when I can. Just work is busy, cutting into my free time and holidays coming up are taking what's left.

Oh, i will
I just did not find new bugs anymore. You must have loads of CTD saves from all kind of peoples and i am allmost sure it is allways the same bug.
I'm gona start a new game. This will increase the bug-probabillity. A lot of things are hard to detect later in the game - like this sniper thing (glad you could fix it).

[KillerFaultier]

ah, well then. no new release until next year. would have been really beautiful to have something stable to play during the holydays.
but real life is a bitch and we all lurk under her whip at the end!
i am also too busy at the moment to do anything constructive on the 1.13.

well, we all look forward to the times when things will get going again for this project. thanks at the coders and 1.13 patrons for the work done so far and good luck for the work to be done!

[commandant]

He didn't say: No release until next year, but

After this release, don't expect too much within the next month or two..

So there will be a release and then there will be a break.